XXL NEXL Trams 2.5

kipate,
What normally happens is some of those using public transport, and those not, end up using the new mass transit system. I saw that when building bus lines after I had metro lines running. I built several other tram lines as tests and never have I seen usage go above zero percent. So it sure looks like there's a problem. I have trams running around but they just don't seem to attract any riders in an area with over a million in population.

Instead of answering like a jerk, why not give some actual useful advice or commentary? You gave neither, just some ignorant static that does nothing to figure out the usage problem I'm seeing. If you don't have anything useful to convey try shutting up, you'll sound smarter that way.

 

My answer was actually quite helpful. But maybe you need some deeper explanation until the penny drops. No worries, you are not alone with that.

1) The game happens to have people trying to go to work by car first. And they will do so as long as the roads are free (green) or as long as there is no other medium to get them to work faster. The existence of highways will boost that preferences. I guess that's basic knowledge.

2) a) The fastest other medium is the metro. The monorail is basically a metro. Bus and tram are effectively the same, and both are slower than the metro. Of course, there are differences in maintenance costs, but well, that shall not matter here.

b) Also, and this is important, the metro has a larger attraction field than tram or bus have, i.e. people are willing to walk longer distances to get there.

3) Bus and tram may be cheap, but, as stated above, they are not as fast as the metro, nor do they have a free lane to drive on. And on top of that all, bus and tram lines are mostly street-orientated (who would have thought?).

4) The incentive for using the public transportation system decreases for higher classes.

5) Too many stops next to each other decrease a line's attraction (regardless the category (metro/tram)).
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So now let's have a look at your city Flachlandstadt. I guess there are several videos around.

You laid out a typical starter grid. One striking feature is that the narrowest road is probably still 25 metres wide. And your city does only have 2.3 million inhabitants.

So, your question is why your city's residents travel to work by metro but refuse to use the tram, not?

Well, the metro will most likely be used by people who would have to drive longer distances with their cars. Also, when you have diagonally running metro lines (regarding the grid), this will attract people even more:
If you have one square block (roads are framing a square block) of length 1, then the distance from one vertex to a diagonally lying vertex on the other side will have a length of 2. For the diagonally running metro line, it is the square root of 2. Also, the streets that the cars have to drive on may be red/full of traffic. And there may be traffic lights to lengthen the time needed to get around the block.

For metro lines running parallel to the streets, the existence of traffic lights still may have people prefer metros over using their cars.

Now, why do they not use trams?
Well, first of all, if there EXISTS a metro system already, people will not use the tram to get into areas when they could use the metro first to get there (see point 2) a) and b)).

And even if there is no metro leading into a specific area, there are still all of the other points that reduce the people's will to use the metro. Especially when you have highways and wide roads leading into that area.

- Why should one of your citizens go by tram if the car will bring him there faster (see point 1) and 3))?
- Why should one use the tram if he thinks trams are for the poor people (see point 4) for areas where mainly executives and elites work)?

Well, what to do now to get people use the trams?
A1) replace wide roads with tiny roads. That may also lead to a complete demolition of a highway.
A2) delete a metro line, do A1) and then put in some tram line.
A3) the tram mod opts for tram only lanes. Well, put some diagonally running tram only lines there to increase the attractivity of the line.

So, your brain's fried now?

 

Which makes me look like a fool. I am sorry, OmniusPrime. On the other hand, all the points will still hold even after Altiris will have made the mod work.

 

kipate,
It's nice to see you found out how totally wrong you were in replying to my first post about there being a usage problem. At least I was trying to help out Altiris with testing for bugs and indeed found one in the lack of usage. I was polite in pointing out the problem, something you weren't in your first two clueless jerky replies. While I may not have played Cities XL or XXL as long as you I have a good grasp of the game. At least I try to share what I learn about Cities XXL in my videos as well as trying to stir up interest in the game. If you're so all-knowing about these games why not make some how-to videos and share your knowledge with the rest of us?

Your first reply told me you really didn't understand the problem I was trying to point out, that there was a usage problem since there was none. You seemed to be addressing traffic congestion which I didn't complain about. Make sure you understand the point before firing off a jerky reply next time. You also assumed that I have no knowledge whatsoever of mass transit when I do have a fairly good sense of how it works. Not perfect but enough to know how to design and implement a good metro system. Now I'm working on seeing if I can make a good tram system. Try being less insulting, you'll get farther and be more respected that way.

I'm sure glad that I was able to help Altiris find a real bug. He did mention early on that he hadn't fully tested it and asked for us to write up any problems we see. Altiris awesomely fixed the usage bug quickly and now we can all enjoy that benefit of my initial bug report on usage.

 

Altiris,
Thanks so much for verifying that there was a usage bug in the tram mod. Also thanks so much for getting us a quick fix. Now I'll be able to do my next video showing off your trams. I look forward to seeing more of your handiwork and thanks so much for bringing more of the XL UIM to the XXL CM.

 

Well, @OmniusPrime, yeah, I was wrong, as Altiris pointed out. But that does not say that you will get any usage in case one of the points 1) to 5) that I mentioned get into action.

And apparentely, you did not even read through my comment.

I do share my knowledge, track my comments back and you will see. The problem with the specific case is: the knowledge regarding metro and bus transportation comes up with the game-tutorials. Do they still have these tutorials in XXL? If so, it may be worth a look. I can tell that XL 2011 had any information.

 

kipate,
No I didn't read through your lengthy reply because you were such a jerk about this whole subject. Remember that being polite helps in getting people to read what you write.

The XXL tutorials were very basic and didn't really address proper placement of mass transit stops or how to best do layouts. I'm still working on figuring out the best layout concept for the bus/tram systems which are so similar. I'm thinking right now that I only want one 8-line medium tram station to cover the whole city. It looks like that's working well.

I'm sure glad I didn't take your advice at the end of your long reply. I didn't get rid of any metro lines because they work fine. I laid in my first 4 lines of trams and they are attracting riders now, one line even has gone to the medium cars. While my metro ridership has slightly reduced I see that adding the tram system has reduced traffic congestion a bit, mission accomplished. I was able to place tram stops in places where the metro system doesn't really cover well, so having both systems works better to reduce traffic congestion. So I'd have to say my layout concept is working. My lines have 49 to 51 stops and are from 25 to 28 kilometers long.

I'm also glad I didn't make any of my roads skinnier, wider is always better for traffic flow. I do love grids, makes traffic more efficient. I've definitely improved traffic in Flachlandstadt compared to my previous 3 cities.

This is why I do videos, to show cool stuff in Cities XXL and how stuff works. Now I'll be able to do my tram video to show how it works and looks cool. I'll be making and posting it to YouTube within days.

 

And exactly this is what you can conclude from the points 1) to 5) that I stated. So you are writing long paragraphs, but you are not willing to read other people's stuff?

 

kipate,
I did end up reading your points 1-5. Basically nothing new for me, these are things I'd already figured out on my own. I was referring more to your last 3 points which were really not good advice.

Like I said, it was your bad attitude that stopped me from reading your lengthy reply. After seeing your apology I did read your whole missive.

 

Altiris,
Voila! Eureka, I have usage on my trams! Thanks so much for fixing this. My only other observation is that the 4 lines I have are showing up as 1, 4, 3, 2 instead of sequentially in the tram section of the mass transit report at the top of the screen. Not a big deal, doesn't impair gameplay.

 

Just did what you just told me and it's working perfectly! Thanks!

 

Altiris,
Here's my latest video showing off your awesome trams mod. I finished covering the rest of the city I've built up so far and the trams have helped reduce traffic congestion. I give a nice demonstration of converting avenues to tram-tracked ones as well as laying a line and how to overcome a slight problem when trying to run a long ways between stops where the tram line wants to run along an Expressway.

I love your Avatar, reminds me of my younger daze enjoying the magic shrooms.

 

Altiris,
I just noticed that you worked on the XL The Crime and Leisure Add-on as well as the Health Enhancement Mod which are requirement mods for the Civic Service Mod by timofp. I'm using all three and wish they'd fully work in XXL like they must have in XL. Even crippled I still keep using them as they give me some advantages. I'd love to see those get some XXL love from the master of the UIM/Community Mod transfer. Since I'm already using all three I'd be happy to beta test!

 

Altiris,
Bummer but had to ask as they are excellent mods that XXL truly needs. Still thanks for adding things to the CM for other mods to work.

 

Hello world! I walk along the streets of old model trams!? Tell me, please.

 

You can upgrade them, then you will get newer models. But they will cost more.